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PrintMumbai Massacre - The real blame and real culprits
News Type: Event — Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:06 AM EST
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Vital stats of the Mumbai siege operation
On 26th November, a Wednesday night, ten terrorists, (nine killed and one taken alive), mounted a terrorist strike in Mumbai. They attacked at least ten venues (Cama Hospital, Guru Tegh Bahadur Hospital, CST Train Terminus, Leopold Cafe, Girgaum Chowpatty, Metro Junction + the four buildings occupied) and later occupied four building complexes ((The Oberoi Trident Hotel; The old Taj Mahal Hotel and the new Taj;The Nariman Building), killed nearly 190 people over a space of nearly 60 hours. These terrorists came with machine guns, machine pistols, grenades, incendiary bombs, satellite phones, credit cards, Indian currency and US dollars, conflict rations of dry fruits like almonds, raisins, etc.
The assault on these terrorists, initially by local police and later by the elite NSG and MARCOS commando units spread over 60 hours, sanitized nearly a 1000 rooms, covered nearly 70 kilometres of passage ways, corridors, alcoves, enclosures, rooms and passages, in 4 building complexes, spread over nearly 1 square kilometre of dense urban population. Some 150 commandos were used - and final tally of defence personnel killed was 14 policemen and 3 commandos.
After this operation, crowds cheered and the commandos were surrounded by jubilant crowds. Indian media provided live coverage of this terrorist carnage with multiple cameras at multiple sites in a brilliant operation.
Israeli 'experts' were quick to condemn the Indian commando operation. Imagine the Israelis talking about collateral damage. 'Experts' carped about the total intelligence failure - whereas, it was clear that requisite intelligence information was drowned in the accompanying 'noise'.
The aftermath
One day after the end of this operation, the Indian media and commentators are unanimous. Blame the politician.
The Times Of India, desperately somber, intones,
as heaps of bodies lie in morgues in a charred or decomposed state, and loved ones huddle outside to receive them one last time, it is time to ask our politicians: Are you going to go back to playing politics with our lives? Or are you going to do something worthwhile with yours? How many deaths will it take till you know that too many people have died?
Normally incisive, MJ Akbar, falls into the trap of blaming politicians.
The most significant part of the outrage should not be obscured by the drama of events hypnotized by attack, we should not become oblivious of defence. We have been defeated by incompetent governance, both in Mumbai and Delhi ... Complacence and politics gave the terrorists more protection than silence or deception could. But ineffectual leadership turning a tough nation into a soft state. We should have been world leaders in the war against terrorists, for no nation has more experience Instead we are wallowing in the complacent despair of a continual victim. Some three years ago, Dr Manmohan Singh told George Bush that there were no terrorists among Indian Muslims. Perhaps he was unaware of the 1993 Mumbai bombings. Perhaps he want ed to please two constituencies: Bush, who needed a certificate for his view that democracy was the cure for all evil; and local Muslims, who were not being given jobs but could always be offered the consolation prize of a pat on the back. Dr Singh certainly did not fool any terrorists. The Lashkar-e-Taiba might even have interpreted such self-congratulation as a challenge.
Declares, Lord Baron Meghnad Desai,writing in the Indian Express,
It is a test of leadership.
Can India's political parties, tested for 60 years in the crucible of democracy, rise to this occasion and save our country? Can we set aside partisanship of our politics and forge a united front? Can the two major parties set aside differences in their visions of India and weave a common narrative of why India is a nation, united and single?
Hindustan Times joins in with its own two bits. Inderji Hazra writes, in a very superior fashion,
Frankly, the 'lack of form' shown by our political class isn't a big deal for me. The pre-poll mud-slinging looks bad. But so does the @!$%# on our roads. What makes me break into a twitch is something beyond this beggar's opera. When pundits talk about 'asymmetrical warfare', they never mean lathi-wielding policemen vs AK47-armed terrorists, do they? And aren't patrols and security checks, whether along sea fronts or at the entries of malls too much of a drag to bother about day in, day out? As for bringing about more stringent anti-terror laws — or even following standard procedures of law and order and investigations — is it worth all that effort when only two things really determine how easy or hard it will be for future terrorists to attack us?
The two things: political meddling and the law of averages.
Before coming to conclusions about this attack, let us also look at some other incidents across the world in the last few years.
Global Benchmarks
On 23rd October 2002, at a theater in Moscow, the Nord-Ost incident, some 40-50 Chechnyan separatist "Special Purpose Islamic Regiment" took an estimated 850 people hostage. An estimated 300 Russians died in an attempted rescue - and 39 terrorists were killed. This entire operation took was completed after 3 days by releasing a deadly poison gas - that killed many more hostages than the terrorists.
On September 1st, 1995, again in Russia, in the Beslan school tragedy, more than 360 people were killed in the 1995 raid, purportedly led by the Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev, who escaped during the botched rescue attempt by troops. Basayev's claims of responsibility for this attack on Beslan School Number One, are disputed. Basayev used a gang which turned out to be bigger than what Russian authorities initially claimed. An investigator, Mr. Torshin disputed the claim, posted on a Chechen website, saying it "could be a hoax". Of the 32 hostage-takers, one was captured alive, 30 died and one was blown apart. And the number of time taken to 'resolve' this crisis was again about 3 days.
On 5th May, 1980. the 'famous' SAS rescued hostages from the Iranian embassy in London. On April 30th, 1980, six Iranian Arab gunmen, opposed to Ayatollah Khomeni, took hostages, demanding release of some nearly 100 Iranian political prisoners. After 5 days of planning, some 30 'crack' SAS troops overran the embassy. Of the six gunmen, five were killed and one arrested. Of the twenty two hostages, ninteen were set free, one died and two injured in the cross-fire. A film was later made on this operation.
In Peru, the siege of the Japanese embassy began on 17 December when the Marxist rebels stormed a diplomatic cocktail party, seizing more than 400 guests as hostages. The Peruvian forces, with the help of the British SAS, took two weeks to plan this assault.On April 22nd, 1997, the hostages were finally released - after some 4 months.American FBI pitched in, claiming some credit for this operation.
In India, the Akshardham Temple attack took four days to clear.
Let us get real, shall we?
The Indian Government (Central and State together) have an employee base of about 55 lakhs. The number of elected representatives total around 5,500. The Indian population totals 110 crores (1100 million). It makes no sense to make scapegoats of 5500 politicians.
Blaming politicians, who are temporary office bearers, is escapist and is a well tuned strategy by the entrenched bureaucracy which bears the full responsibility for this - the success of this operation and the lack of efforts to kill this problem at its root.
Future Actions
India needs to act differently. India must force the world to do three things.
One - Close down the Peshawar arms bazaar. This small time bazaar became the sourcing centre for terrorists all over the world. Initially, stocked up with arms from the CIA funded jihad against the Soviets in Afghanistan, Peshawar, has become a problem that never ends. If required, there should be a UN mandate to send in a multinational force to surround, capture and destroy this centre for arms and armaments.
Two - Withdraw all technology from Pakistan for all arms and ammunition. No RDX, no tanks, no F-16s, no APCs. Pakistan must be put on strict diet of military technology blockade by the world. No less.
Three - Secure Pakistan's borders with a tripartite agreement between China, India and Pakistan which will guarantee Pakistan's current borders. No disputes, no claims from Pakistan have any legitimacy any more. Let Pakistan take care of its current territory and people.
These three actions will rid the sub-continent of all tensions and conflicts - no less. It has to be underpinned by India and China. The West, and Pakistan will protest, but must be made to follow this prescription.
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17
{"commentId":4238085,"authorDomain":"2ndlook"}
This great desire to lash out at the politicians (always inviting targets) is nevertheless self defeating. It just shows that we have given up. The real war is with each of us - and we need to fight this.
{"commentId":4238085,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"2ndlook"}
- 4 votes
#1 - Sun Nov 30, 2008 7:17 AM EST{"commentId":4238704,"authorDomain":"raatkiraani"}
Excellent report and to your customary style. I totally agree with your bottom line.
The real war is with each of us - and we need to fight this.
Exactly. This madness has to end. It is up to each of us to stand up and be counted. Thanks for this.
{"commentId":4238704,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"raatkiraani"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":4239619,"authorDomain":"alkimija"}
Excellent. Clipped. Your suggestions are very good.
{"commentId":4239619,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"alkimija"}
- 3 votes
#2 - Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:49 AM EST{"commentId":4242496,"authorDomain":"mwestenfelder"}
So your solution is a full arms embargo on Pakistan (i.e. weaken the Pakistani Army in general), a rather futile actionism regarding the most known source of small arms in Pakistan (to not forget it wasn't the Pakistani Army but some terrorists which attacked) and the settlement of border disputes completely in favour of India (why not, good occasion).
Interesting..........at least you know how to make hay out of a tragedy.
{"commentId":4242496,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"mwestenfelder"}
- 2 votes
#3 - Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:30 PM EST{"commentId":4244190,"authorDomain":"2ndlook"}
Martin - Your Western bias and attitudes shine through - like the darkness at the end of the tunnel.
Would you like to consider ...
1. India did not occupy Bangladesh - unlike America in Afghanistan and Iraq. Distrust for India's intentions is misplaced. Further more, I am suggesting that China (a trusted Pakistani ally) should be co-opted in guaranteeing this solution.
2. The Pakistani Army (thinks) they need to fight the Indian Army. India will guarantee non-aggression and guarantee Pakistani borders. This means no border concessions. Current POK will remain with Pakistan - as will the balance Kashmir with India.
3. Hopefully, you will agree that Pakistan does not need an arms with India - at least for the next 25 years.
Might it not be a better idea, maybe, if I am not asking too much, that you open your mind, before you open your ...
{"commentId":4244190,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"2ndlook"}
- 2 votes
#4 - Mon Dec 1, 2008 4:29 AM EST{"commentId":4245447,"authorDomain":"mwestenfelder"}
My bias?
LOL
{"commentId":4245447,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"mwestenfelder"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4246778,"authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
What does this even mean???
3. Hopefully, you will agree that Pakistan does not need an arms with India - at least for the next 25 years.
{"commentId":4246778,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4255868,"authorDomain":"2ndlook"}
{"commentId":4244906,"authorDomain":"SthPacific"}
One - Close down the Peshawar arms bazaar. This small time bazaar became the sourcing centre for terrorists all over the world. Initially, stocked up with arms from the CIA funded jihad against the Soviets in Afghanistan, Peshawar, has become a problem that never ends. If required, there should be a UN mandate to send in a multinational force to surround, capture and destroy this centre for arms and armaments.
HA HA good luck, If the Darra markets are ever closed surrounded or those people defeated, I'll personally give you 1000$ in cash,
Obviously you have never been to Kashmir, and you really have no idea about what you are saying.
2. The Pakistani Army (thinks) they need to fight the Indian Army. India will guarantee non-aggression and guarantee Pakistani borders. This means no border concessions. Current POK will remain with Pakistan - as will the balance Kashmir with India.
And who is going to enforce that ? America, Dont make me laugh again.
Three - Secure Pakistan's borders with a tripartite agreement between China, India and Pakistan which will guarantee Pakistan's current borders. No disputes, no claims from Pakistan have any legitimacy any more. Let Pakistan take care of its current territory and people.
Yeah right are you serious, the last time the Frontiers were secured was under Alexander the Great,
There are no borders to secure. Can you grasp that ? I mean really, I know you look at those lines on the map and think that they actually mean something in your western mind, but you have no idea about what you are saying. First, We call this area, The Nth West Fronteir, Russia calls it the Southern Frontier, and China calls it Xing Xang, trans; the New Frontier. Afghanistan is no a country it is the absence of a country, If you knew your history you would know that, When the British and the Russians sent out their cartographers all those years ago to carve up the world, there was one part left that neither of them could map, this hole in the map of the world was named Afghanistan.
Do you even know what this fight is about, Do you know where Baluchistan and Turkmenistan are and why we are fighting over these places. Do you know why Afghanistan is the key to these riches?
To finish off here are you sure that it was Pakistan that launched these attacks, I would say that due to the M.O. of these people it would seem very unlikely. You do realize that there is violent opposition to India Sikh pres. and that these people Naxi's etc are mighty pissed that he singed this deal with the US for Nuke technology and those dud warships, Do you understand the basis for Indian Nationalism/Patriotism ? and why this would be a primary motive for this attack ?
I also see you made reference to Chechnya, I suppose you know how stupiud it was to build that bloody BTC pipeline that runs right up against Chechnya and Dagestan. You know the one they were fighting over in Georgia recently, the one that goes to Baku, in Azerbaijan. Do you know about the Blood Feud system they practice there? How it last 7 generations, If some idiot American pilot or UAV operator has bombed some village in the Caucasus, they will hunt down the entire family of that person and kill them, even if it takes 200 years. The Russian used to file the engine No.s and body No.s off their equipment before they went in their, other wise they would use these no.s to track down the pilots families.
You need to understand the terrain of these theaters, it is the roof of the world, The only way to win is to go in there on foot and fight them hand to hand, This will result in huge casualties, many more than countries like the USA is prepared to suffer, and probably more than they can sustain anyway.
The bottom line is, that America will never ever get its grubby greedy hands on that gas, and the sooner the US and NATO get out of the Caspian basin the better for everyone,
{"commentId":4244906,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"SthPacific"}
- 6 votes
#5 - Mon Dec 1, 2008 9:17 AM EST{"commentId":4244982,"authorDomain":"2ndlook"}
Welcome back SthPacific. Long time, no see.
First things first. I am an Indian, in India, in Mumbai for the last 9 years. I was about 10 kilometres away while this was happening.
That may still mean that I am Westernized in my thinking!! I hear that allegation sometimes - still. Coming from you, that is definitely not a compliment.
Your thinking (and your take) remains different.And that from me is a compliment.
My belief is that the Pakistan Government is NOT involved. Not even the ISI, this time. It is some terrorist group which uses Pakistani soil to train, equip and fund these activities. There may be Chechnyan elements. The use of Pakistani soil is what bothers me.
And no .. I am not expecting Uncle Sam to do anything - except lay off.
I think Zardari realizes, for the first time in Pakistan, that time is running out for Pakistan.
{"commentId":4244982,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"2ndlook"}
- 6 votes
#6 - Mon Dec 1, 2008 9:30 AM EST{"commentId":4251080,"authorDomain":"raatkiraani"}
Good take, Sth Pacific. I am with 2nd Look on these sentiments...
And no .. I am not expecting Uncle Sam to do anything - except lay off.
There have been too many outside influences that have prevented the Kashmir issue being resolved between India and Pakistan, and neither party themselves have helped their own cause much. Sth Pacific is right on the button about Afghanistan - no outsider has really been able to leave that hell hole any better than before their interference. But the two issues (Kashmir and Afghanistan) are closely linked, and Pakistan holds the key to that.
I think Zardari realizes, for the first time in Pakistan, that time is running out for Pakistan.
I agree. Zardari shows that he is looking ahead (perhaps because Pakistan has no real option). I see the Mumbai attacks as an attempt to thwart both India and Pakistan from finally putting the ghost of partition behind them. They have to. The LOC should become a firm border and Pakistan has a huge role to play in assuring that India that it will become a firm border, with no further attempts that it be infiltrated by separatists.
{"commentId":4251080,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"raatkiraani"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":4252021,"authorDomain":"SonOfLIberty2008"}
I see the Mumbai attacks as an attempt to thwart both India and Pakistan from finally putting the ghost of partition behind them.
I'd agree with that completely. These governments and people need to find a way to work with each other, not against each other.
{"commentId":4252021,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"SonOfLIberty2008"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4256040,"authorDomain":"raatkiraani"}
people need to find a way to work with each other
Speaking just for the people, the vast majority of people, in India as well as Pakistan, are not divided. They share a common heritage across a few major religions, mainly Hindu and Muslim. It is the fundamentalists that cause division; politicians in both countries take advantage of that for their vote banks and outsiders use that division to create a wedge.
{"commentId":4256040,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"raatkiraani"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4319960,"authorDomain":"SthPacific"}
There may be Chechnyan elements. The use of Pakistani soil is what bothers me.
Good call. I wonder where the Russians have been getting all that intel on this from, They did seem to be a little to well informed for just interested bystanders.
If they are Caspian Basin terrorists, then who are their handlers ? I keep asking myself that. Chechens were seen fighting recently in Georgia with Russians, They seemed to be working independently as hit squads, and yes I have proof, of that and much more.
There is also a strong possibility that this is internal, and China is pulling some strings here. Being Indian, you are well aware of the problem with the current PM. so I wont go into that, but if the Nazi's are getting better funding from China, this could be the start of some much bigger problems for India.
If we look at who benefits from this, it would be China, They would not be pleased with the recent events in Somalia and India's participation in some of those affairs, ie Pirates. and to cap it off, India does harbour a number of Tibetan refugee's and allows them to pursue policies regarding Tibetan independence that would be a greater threat to Indian Sovereignty than anything from Pakistan.
{"commentId":4319960,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"SthPacific"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4320059,"authorDomain":"2ndlook"}
SthPacific - It is not an accident or a co-incidence that John Nash became a schizophrenic.
At some point, issues have to be simplified. Pakistani borders have harboured terrorists for too long.
This safe haven has to be made inoperative. It can be low intensity strikes against known camps which is operationally sustainable by India - and will surely damage these camps, due to the frequent shifts required.
Or it can be an all out war - which may be expensive, with an uncertain outcome and we may end with some Paklets (mini Pakistans) each of whom may turn out to be as big a headache.
{"commentId":4320059,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"2ndlook"}
- 1 vote
#7 - Sat Dec 6, 2008 8:34 AM EST{"commentId":4320231,"authorDomain":"SthPacific"}
I dont see this as being a solution, You cant simplify this down to an issue with Pakistan, If they are Caspian Basin terrorists, then bombing a few camps in Pakistan will just make them worse,
What you are not understanding is that, they dont have to win, all they have to do is not lose, where as if you attack these groups you have to win and you have to win quickly.
6. There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.
{"commentId":4320231,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"SthPacific"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4320258,"authorDomain":"mwestenfelder"}
Or it can be an all out war - which may be expensive, with an uncertain outcome and we may end with some Paklets (mini Pakistans) each of whom may turn out to be as big a headache.
You may also end up with some million Indians with leukemia, remember?
{"commentId":4320258,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"mwestenfelder"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4320368,"authorDomain":"2ndlook"}
{"commentId":4320308,"authorDomain":"2ndlook"}
Well ... assume ...
1. They are Caspian Basin sponsors ...
2. Using from Pakistan elements (this is clear) ...
3. Trained in Pakistani camps ... (also very clear) ...
4. With Pakistani bases (also with clear proof) ...
Simple grenade bombing ... will ensure that a camp will have to shift. Implicit in a simple grenade bombing will be the threat that next time ...
I agree with you (and Sun Tzu) about the long drawn out wars bit. I am not suggesting an expensive full scale invasion ... long drawn out battles. Slip across a team of 10 commandos. They lob a few grenades into identified camps ... and walk away. The main element in the planning should be the break in and getaway of this commando team.
A disruption like that will make matters worse for them. It will definitely destabilize them. Instead of hatching plots agisnt India, they will now be focussed on finding safe havens fpor themselves.
Of course, it also begs the question .. what evidence do we have that Caspian Basin elements were involved ... none as of now ...
{"commentId":4320308,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"2ndlook"}
- 2 votes
#8 - Sat Dec 6, 2008 9:05 AM EST{"commentId":4320898,"authorDomain":"SthPacific"}
Well LeT would qualify as a Caspian group, they are international these days, and after what the British intel did to them in Kyrgyzstan Tajikistan and Uzbekistan I would expect them to attack western interests. These groups will ofcourse come via Pakistan because they have to, so destroying camps in the tribal area's will have no effect, other than to create more willing recruits. It was a mistake for India to throw their lot in with the USA and it will turn out to be an historical blunder I think.
{"commentId":4320898,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"SthPacific"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4320958,"authorDomain":"2ndlook"}
a mistake for India to throw their lot in with the USA and it will turn out to be an historical blunder I think.
I cant think of a bigger mistake. Strictly bad news ...
{"commentId":4320958,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"2ndlook"}
- 1 vote
#9 - Sat Dec 6, 2008 10:10 AM EST{"commentId":4340249,"authorDomain":"SthPacific"}
{"commentId":4353857,"authorDomain":"2ndlook"}
{"commentId":4354373,"authorDomain":"raatkiraani"}
Awesome is indeed an understatement! That Alternet link is telling.
Enron was unraveling at the seams, yet in early August, Kenneth Lay seemed optimistic, even exuberant. Was he whistling past the graveyard, or did he have secret information? The last meeting between U.S. and Taliban representatives took place five weeks before the attacks on New York and Washington; on that occasion, Christina Rocca, in charge of Central Asian affairs for the U.S. government, met the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan in Islamabad on August 2, 2001. Rocca said the Taliban representative, Mr. Zaeef, was aware of the strong U.S. commitment to help the Afghan people and the fact that the United States had provided $132 million in relief assistance so far that year.
That was just weeks before 9/11! If the disappearance of Enron in a matter of months after 9/11 through many disparate and highly suspicious conduct is a sign, what to really make of the financial crisis and disappearance of some key banks this time round? Oil + Finance + Power = Politics, but not as the masses see.
{"commentId":4354373,"threadId":"430858","contentId":"2162839","authorDomain":"raatkiraani"}
- 3 votes
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